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Advice re: replace fascia trim with Azek

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http://boards.diynetwork.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9221916776/m/9933941077

Apr 29, 2013, 12:44 PM
SturdyNail
Advice re: replace fascia trim with Azek
I'd like to replace my fascia trim with Azek.
The primary reason is that, especially where roof-lines converge, the wood trim rots.
Are there any special considerations I should keep in mind if I use Azek? For example, I'm wondering if moisture gets behind the Azek, I might be causing a bigger problem.

Is there a better choice than Azek?
Also, if/when I rip out the old fascia, am I likely to damage the roofing shingles (I'm guessing that there are some roofing nails that are sunk into the fascia)?

Thanks in advance.

Fascia where rooflines converge

Apr 29, 2013, 01:44 PM
Sparky617
I've used AZEK and really like the product. I think your idea of using it here is spot on. It is definitely more expensive than wood but you won't be back up on the roof replacing it again.

You may find your drip edge nailed into the facia. I suspect if you look the roof sheathing is covering the edge of the facia so any roofing nails won't be going into the facia too far. I'd carefully pry it away and then using a pair of diagonal cutters cut off the part of the nail sticking out of the roof sheathing and into the facia. The rot on your wood could have been prevented or at least delayed if the builder had primed the wood before he installed it including the cut edges. Most never do this because the warranty is long gone before the rot shows up.

A lot of handyman services owe their livelihood to doing rot repair from this practice.

Are those spots on the singles roofing nails? I'd be concerned with exposed nails in your valley and in the field of the shingles. Those are all leaks waiting to happen.


General Disclaimer

Any advice given here is general in nature and is not necessarily valid for your given area. If in doubt check with your local codes enforcement department for what is required when doing electrical, plumbing or structural work on your house. Permits may or may not be required in your area and home owners may not be able to DIY some tasks. I have no way of knowing if you have the skills needed to complete the tasks you are asking about, when in doubt seek professional assistance.

My advice may be worth exactly what you pay me for it. :-) For the record I did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Apr 29, 2013, 02:57 PM
joecaption
All those shingles on that rake were installed wrong and should be redone.
There set to far back.
They should have hung out over the drip cap by at least 3/8".
The reason that board started to rot is because no one primed and painted the end of the board.
Any real lumber yard or siding supply company should have 1 X 6 vinyl lumber in stock up to 16' long so there's no seams.


joecaption
Apr 29, 2013, 03:06 PM
swschrad
as sparky noted, those exposed nails indicate issues. perhaps the issue of the shingles are exposed past the granules into the "cover me here" zone. they blew back, and somebody went up there and whacked in more nails.

the real fix would have been to reshingle this section.

is there flashing or EPDM beneath that valley? I don't see any.

I suspect a professional on the roof examining that roofing will flunk it. you have more problems coming.


sig: if this is a new economy, how come they still want my old-fashioned money?
Apr 29, 2013, 03:36 PM
Sparky617
Yeah, while I'm not a builder, the valley shingling doesn't look like any technique I've seen. I've seen metal valleys and and woven shingles. This looks like they butted the shingles against each other with a straight cut. There needs to be something below that to ensure the water doesn't find its way to the roof deck.


General Disclaimer

Any advice given here is general in nature and is not necessarily valid for your given area. If in doubt check with your local codes enforcement department for what is required when doing electrical, plumbing or structural work on your house. Permits may or may not be required in your area and home owners may not be able to DIY some tasks. I have no way of knowing if you have the skills needed to complete the tasks you are asking about, when in doubt seek professional assistance.

My advice may be worth exactly what you pay me for it. :-) For the record I did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Apr 29, 2013, 04:32 PM
SturdyNail
Thanks for your feedback Sparky617, joecaption, and swschrad.
Those white spots are actually cherry blossom petals blown over from the neighbor's tree.
No nail heads are showing.
They may not have done a very good job, but the roofing was put on by a "professional contractor" around 7 years ago. As you can probably see, the shingles themselves are still in good shape.
Honestly, I don't know what they did to flash the valleys. That was before I decided to get a bit more "hands on" with my home maintenance.
I have painted that wood fascia several times, but, obviously, I can't get behind it.
If I use PVC fascia, should I use construction adhesive, caulk, or something on the back to keep any moisture from seeping behind it?

Thanks again.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SturdyNail,
Apr 29, 2013, 05:02 PM
swschrad
the general idea is that you want to force water OUT.... and then DOWN and away. so every trick in the book that forces water out and then away is valid.

there should be flashing up the wood at least several inches, then curving down over the tar paper or EPDM and under the shingles. again, if wind drives rain up against the edge of the shingles/fascia join, there has to be something there to force it away again.

if it isn't there, it should be added, and there are guides online... there is also prebent flashing for chimneys, etc. at the larger yards that should show you how high up and how far over you need to protect.

it is a good idea to stick the bottom end down with roofing adhesive to insure water doesn't get in there. and if you find you have to install this behind the fascia because shingles go to wood behind it, then definitely lay a minimum quarter-inch bead of 100% silicone at the bottom so you press into it with the PVC fascia.

a lot of "professional" roofers may or may not have any training... but they sure hire a lot of characters off the park benches and turn 'em loose without any supervision. 15 minutes of OJT and done.

I would expect the valleys probably have some tuck-under from the shingles at minimum, but at this point, I wouldn't assume anything. looks like a 3-year roof made of 30 year shingles Frown


sig: if this is a new economy, how come they still want my old-fashioned money?
Apr 29, 2013, 05:37 PM
Sparky617
Why I like posting here. I Googled roof valley shingling and learned something new today. Your roof has a "closed cut valley" Here is a video that explains it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzWqSQ3G1gs

Based on this video I think your valleys are fine.


General Disclaimer

Any advice given here is general in nature and is not necessarily valid for your given area. If in doubt check with your local codes enforcement department for what is required when doing electrical, plumbing or structural work on your house. Permits may or may not be required in your area and home owners may not be able to DIY some tasks. I have no way of knowing if you have the skills needed to complete the tasks you are asking about, when in doubt seek professional assistance.

My advice may be worth exactly what you pay me for it. :-) For the record I did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Apr 29, 2013, 09:46 PM
joecaption
No caulking needed.


joecaption
Apr 30, 2013, 08:19 AM
SturdyNail
Thanks again swschrad, Sparky617, and joecaption,

swschrad, I'm having a hard time visualizing what you described:
quote:
there should be flashing up the wood at least several inches, then curving down over the tar paper or EPDM and under the shingles. again, if wind drives rain up against the edge of the shingles/fascia join, there has to be something there to force it away again.


Sparky617, it's good to know that the crew that did my roofing didn't invent a "closed cut valley" --just hope they did it right.

Joe, I do understand what you said about the shingles needing to hang over the drip edge. That is something the roofing crew did NOT do right. And, I appreciate that you're not shy about offering an alternative opinion.

Cheeers!
Apr 30, 2013, 08:31 AM
Jaybee
Chiming in to add that an alternative material to Azek would be Hardi. Hardi makes a 1x6 facia material designed just for this. While the Hardi is heavier and a little harder to work with, it does not expand and contract as much as Azek.


Jaybee
Apr 30, 2013, 08:59 AM
joecaption
No way would I ever suggest anyone use Hardi trim for anything.
Just trying to get it to the job site, painting it and installing it without breaking it is a real challange.
If you look at the on line install directions it will tell you it can not be used within 2" of any soild surface or it will delaminate.
Plus the fact it still needs to be painted. It holds paint great, but still needs to be painted.
Sorry Jaybee, just a matter of a differant opion on what's worked and not worked for me.


joecaption
Apr 30, 2013, 09:47 AM
SturdyNail
Interesting points Jaybee and joecaption, because I was thinking of using the Azek on the gables that have an end that terminates at a roof surface (like in my picture) because of the point that Joe made about the need for 2" clearance above other surfaces (6" above grade).
For the other gables, I was considering using the Hardie Trim--hadn't thought about it being fragile though.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SturdyNail,
Apr 30, 2013, 10:29 AM
joecaption
They did not "invent" that style valley.
Pretty common way to do it.
As long as they layed a 24" wide flashing under it, ran the shingles on one side past the valley and did not nail within 6" of the valley it would have been fine.


joecaption
Apr 30, 2013, 10:34 AM
joecaption
I have a 14' flat bed trailer that I use to pick up materials.
I use 3 people when trying to lift and move the Hardee trim.
Even then by the end of the day a couple of pieces all was seem to end up chipped or just snap off.
When using vinyl lumber I can work with 16' pieces all day long and never have a problum.


joecaption
Apr 30, 2013, 07:53 PM
Jaybee
Yeah, I hear you Joe. I'm over 6' tall and have about a 6-1/2' "wingspan" so I can balance a 12' long Hardi plank solo. But, I make darn sure that my hands are in the right balance point and that it doesn't start to bounce.

Of course, once it's in place it's more than strong enough. I figure that every material has a down-side. Hardi still needs to be painted. Vinyl or Azek will expand a lot in the sun. But all of those will out-perform wood.


Jaybee
Apr 30, 2013, 08:09 PM
joecaption
Idealy if someones going to be using vinyl lumber as a fashia you first install a sub fashia to attach it to, not just hang it from the rafter tails.

I also use stainless steel trim head screws, not nails to attach it.


joecaption
Apr 30, 2013, 10:19 PM
SturdyNail
Joe, what do you use to fill the holes?
Jaybee/Joe, maybe I should start a new topic for this, but, since we're talking about Hardie, have either of you done laced corners with the Hardie Shingle Straight Edge Panels? It looks a little tricky, but my wife and I like that look.
May 01, 2013, 08:04 AM
joecaption
I've been using Alex 230. 50 year latex caluking.
Only trick is to not use any more then what's need to cover the screw. Do not leave any on the face of the material or it will show.
A simple wipe with a damp sponge will take the excess off.
I like the look of those outside corners when there first done that way but have seen some a few years later.
Near imposible to keep the seam closed.

What I've been using instead is preformed vinyl lumber corners.
http://www.certainteed.com/pro...trim/j-pocket/309676


joecaption