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        Question about rim joist configuration Sign In/Join 
        posted Hide Post
        Does the brick go all the way around the house or just in this area.?
         
        Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        Well that blew my first thought right out of the water.
        quote:
        I will say this... According to the last photo posted Feb. 07,2014 at 09:20 AM.If the window located on the first floor between the porch and trellis is just above that vent pipe, You shouldn't be in any danger. If the trusses had been run in the other direction I would be very worried.

        Not quite sure what you mean Ron... Yes the window is above the register fed by duct work seen here. The rim joist is out on brick veneer (inbound joist's run parallel so as of now the rim is only thing under the two story's,...one end of rim joist is resting on sill on block at porch (good), the other end only on brick veneer/facade that was built up to the rim joist (bad). The right way is to have perpendicular short joists across bearing block wall (say 24" set between rim and next floor joist over).
        I had very reputable mason check this out yesterday and his opinion was
        1. brick layer should have been fired (so many gaps in mortar joints)
        2. brick veneer is not a structural support method
        3.Ties will help, brick laterally.
        Had structural engineer in the day before and his thoughts were.
        1.Half ****d way of construction ( his word's, not mine)
        2. cross blocking (ladder framing)from joists farther inside in this section is how it should have been done and is best fix (puts load back on top of block)
        3.He also stated that "in theory" the brick would support the weight vertically and Expert witness could argue to this "in theory" should lawyers get involved.

        That being said, would anyone feel comfortable having two story's resting on an "in theory support" or would engineered and tried and true methods be better.
        I did trade emails with the builder and got back this short carefully worded message that said "Your warranty has expired". Not even a yours truly....Doesn't that just leave you with that warm fuzzy feeling.
        Starting to feel like the Guy that had Tower of Pisa built and when lean started occuring the builder "said nothing to worry about, just a little settling" "and oh,by the way the warranty has expired"
        Sorry about that small exaggerated comparison to my situation but you get the idea.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: measure2,

         
        Posts: 101 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of GardenSprite
        posted Hide Post
        Measure, when did you (a) sign the agreement to build the house and (b) close the deal?

        I think you mentioned it somewhere in one of your posts but I can't find it right now.

        I ask because even though the warranty may have expired, you may have options if the statute of limitations hasn't run.

        One thing I would do is check with the local county circuit court clerk's office for lawsuits against this builder. I believe you wrote that there are other houses built like this. If there were other lawsuits, you might have some leverage against the builder even if the warranty has expired.

        I would also report this builder to your state's licensing department.

        Is this guy still building houses?

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: GardenSprite,
         
        Posts: 1911 | Registered: Oct 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        houses were built in 92',.. I have spoken with a person at the Baltimore county building inspectors office about this but they didn't seem interested in coming over to do inspection they missed the first time, and they probably could tell the direction this may go. The contact made with builder was over their website and of course I suppose they could check this forum if they wanted to follow along. So I try to be careful in my wording of anything. Just let photo's speak for themselves.
        There are eight other identical houses here but no way to know without going into basements (most of them finished) and seeing if same mistake exists in all of them.
         
        Posts: 101 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        quote:
        Originally posted by ron45:
        Does the brick go all the way around the house or just in this area.?

        Brick goes around what is designed to be front of house and then around corner to garage. They is a parallel joist on that side also that is probably on the brick (the next parallel floor joist over blocks any view over top of block wall to see it, so I'm going to have to make small hole,with-in specs of joist manufacturer, in joist to see out to this outer rim). this area of house is one story and has large window and wall area that juts out about a foot.
         
        Posts: 101 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        So I continue to carefully clear out debris in gap between brick veneer (that supports rim joist) and the block (gap filled with mortar blobs,etc.)(I say carefully because I don't want to disturb brick wall in any way). Like a surgical operation.
        I now can see the corner where rim ends and also where perpendicular rim joist (on back wall) meets it. The offending rim on brick is attached to the other rim with (1),yes count it,one nail through the bottom flange.Reason I can easily tell is the joists are not touching and can see the nail through the bottom and and see empty gap where other nail should be at the top...don't think there should be a gap though(about 3/4 inch gaps top and bottom). Specs on this engineered wood I-beam show nailing patterns of 1 10d nail per flange into the end of another (so one top and one bottom to join it with rim headed across back wall) I will also photograph and document this latest discovery with new sketch in case anyone reading this thriller is holding their breath. I'm hoping that maybe in the least I can provide a little levity here writing this stuff and entertain someone. Helps keep me sane!! So Far!
         
        Posts: 101 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of GardenSprite
        posted Hide Post
        I see a possible book in the future...or perhaps a new Chicken Soup entry for the DIY Soul?
         
        Posts: 1911 | Registered: Oct 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        Sorry about that, I was trying to make sure both pictures went with each other. I was trying to come with a reason for such a screw up.
        This is why I mentioned the bulk head, maybe they were going to install it in the wrong place or figured out it was not suppose to have one. And this led to the measures taken to cover it up.

        I only mentioned about the danger to put your mind at ease, most of the weight is on the other trusses. I'm not saying this is the way to do things, and somewhere down the line it may sag.
        If this was by designed it's a poor one. It's probably the way they figured to get the brick front without having a ledge.
        In your drawing I noticed the truss is directly over the 12" inch block. The 8" inch block off sets it to allow for the brick, but I fully agree with everything you have said. I am not saying this is right just offering some ideas.

        I wouldn't be uncomfortable but would be mad as hell, should this sag ( if it hasn't already) it's going to cost a good bit to have it fixed.
        I would take the pictures ( have lots of them in every angle) to your local Land Use Office. Find out if this would have passed an inspection for the year it was built. Then I would talk to a lawyer that deals with construction suits and see if you have a case.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: ron45,
         
        Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of GardenSprite
        posted Hide Post
        Just a quick comment and clarification on my query about the builder's history and actions, and the possibility of a claim of action against him...

        I mentioned statute of limitations, which would be the governing factor in the state in which Measure2 resides in. Given that the house was built in 1992, I would suspect that the statute has already "run", meaning that the time for filing suit has expired.

        I believe that some criminal charges have unlimited statutes, but I don't think that building mistakes (or incompetence?) would fall into that category. This would be a civil, not a criminal claim.

        I do agree that it's inappropriate to name the builder on a public forum, but checking his professional background and possible earlier suits can be done discreetly.
         
        Posts: 1911 | Registered: Oct 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        quote:
        Originally posted by GardenSprite:
        I see a possible book in the future...or perhaps a new Chicken Soup entry for the DIY Soul?


        Thanks GardenSprite,..for that and the following reply you put in,.. I have set wheels in motion to figure out economically how far to take this. In other words, don't spend 15 to save 5 if you know what I mean.
        Will try to keep an update on here.... meanwhile It's back to "labor camp"(tackle other areas not affected by this)
         
        Posts: 101 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        http://www.internationalbeams....ry/i-joists/...brick to grade cantilever for IB I joists (TB-IJ-4) diagram in this site of end bearing details shows pretty good picture of the fix that has been recommended and how it should have been originally done.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: measure2,
         
        Posts: 101 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        I am not getting anything with the link except the home site and " no post match your criteria"
         
        Posts: 1756 | Location: Applachain | Registered: Feb 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of GardenSprite
        posted Hide Post
        I had the same problem with the link - "Sorry, no posts matched your criteria."
         
        Posts: 1911 | Registered: Oct 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        quote:
        Originally posted by redoverfarm:
        I am not getting anything with the link except the home site and " no post match your criteria"


        sorry, didn't copy the link right...try this

        http://www.internationalbeams....ts_August%202010.pdf
         
        Posts: 101 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        quote:
        Originally posted by GardenSprite:
        I had the same problem with the link - "Sorry, no posts matched your criteria."


        Also sorry, didn't copy the link right ( computer stuff not my best "sport")...try this link

        http://www.internationalbeams....ts_August%202010.pdf
         
        Posts: 101 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        Do you know how to copy and paste.?
         
        Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        quote:
        Originally posted by ron45:
        Do you know how to copy and paste.?


        Yeah, first time I thought I'd dragged over the whole link but since it was so long some didn't appear in the box and I missed it, Like I said, computer's are not my forte,the wife laughs at my hunt and peck typing. hope you got the link this time.
        Anyway the latest in this saga is the lawyers versed in construction litigation confirmed what I already felt (Builder has more money than me) and that unless house suffers catastrophe it will not be worth the cost in fighting the Builder but I should continue to document and Tally my cost's then write a nice letter with all pictures and documentation and then send bill to the builder and eagerly wait for my refund...was kidding about last part. So to read between the line on lawyers advice, I'm basically the little guy and will always get the sha- sha- sha-... short end of the stick.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: measure2,
         
        Posts: 101 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of GardenSprite
        posted Hide Post
        Sorry for the bad news, but unfortunately it's not surprising, especially given the time lapse between construction and today.

        But seriously, I do see a humorous book in the making, especially if you include your efforts to rectify the deficiencies.

        See Peter Mayle's books on Provence for inspiration:

        http://french.about.com/od/toppicks/tp/petermayle.htm

        And of course change names of everyone, situate yourself literarily in a different state - make sure nothing can be identified.
         
        Posts: 1911 | Registered: Oct 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        Thanks, ... I get my humorous side from probably reading too much of Bill Bryson and the like although my wife thinks I've become a bit grouchy lately.
        But at the end of the day a good sense of humor help's (plus any favorite beverage doesn't hurt, just don't operate power tools also).
        On another note,The billiard room area is still in design stage as far as final look and I think I am leaning towards old school, worn 1930's 40's pool hall appearance since that is the tables vintage. So I guess I'll take Ideas from folks out there and compile info......need good old pool hall photo's from that era. Maybe I should start new discussion somewhere and put this "horse" down.
         
        Posts: 101 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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