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        Question about rim joist configuration Sign In/Join 
        posted
        During process of going around inspecting and prepping rim joist areas for spray insulation I discovered/uncovered this one section of it (just under 10'wide,not counting where "rim" joist rests on block at one end) that is set on 5 course's of brick "facade". The bricks sit on brick ledge built out from block basement wall. Is this set up kosher or something that should be addressed somehow.?
        Have attached a rough diagram to give a better idea about this layout,joist in this section run parallel to the wall and rim joist is same as all the other floor joists ("silent floor" beams )

         
        Posts: 106 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        I found this very unusual. Normally there is a Rim joist surrounding the complete foundation and the I-joist are attached to this. I have never seen floor joist which appears to be what that is sitting on the outside wall resting on the brick. They are usually sitting on top of the block wall. Bricks are usually not structural but comestic.
         
        Posts: 1786 | Location: Applachain | Registered: Feb 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        My own house has a poured concrete foundation with brick on the exposed areas of the foundation. I have a slopping lot and at the back of the house on the side there is about 7' of exposed brick. The side walls and outer most floor joist is sitting on the brick. The side walls are siding above the basement.

        There is no reason the brick can't be structural. Missing from your diagram are likely the brick ties that go between the 8" block and the brick. Around here, if you have a block foundation it is typically topped with brick to form a barrier between the open cores of the blocks and the wood of the foundation. This provides and extra barrier from termites.


        General Disclaimer

        Any advice given here is general in nature and is not necessarily valid for your given area. If in doubt check with your local codes enforcement department for what is required when doing electrical, plumbing or structural work on your house. Permits may or may not be required in your area and home owners may not be able to DIY some tasks. I have no way of knowing if you have the skills needed to complete the tasks you are asking about, when in doubt seek professional assistance.

        My advice may be worth exactly what you pay me for it. :-) For the record I did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
         
        Posts: 891 | Location: Cary, NC | Registered: Aug 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        quote:
        There is no reason the brick can't be structural. Missing from your diagram are likely the brick ties that go between the 8" block and the brick. Around here, if you have a block foundation it is typically topped with brick to form a barrier between the open cores of the blocks and the wood of the foundation. This provides and extra barrier from termites.

        I am trying to get better look in space between block and brick to determine if ties are in there (the next joist is almost directly above the block wall and restricts my view) Only way to see down in gap is with a mirror.Funny you should mention the termites.A couple years ago when I replaced carpet with wood floor above this area I found the little buggers at the bottom of the exterior stud wall (could see their little wood piles when I pulled the baseboard)and this is the only spot they were.
         
        Posts: 106 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        Took out several 4 inch X 16 cap blocks (3 1/2 of them, 2 1/2 were already loose) to get better look and after clearing debris (mortar blobs,spider webs with bits of termites etc) I can find no ties through this section (about 5').

         
        Posts: 106 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        A properly supported brick wall can certainly support the weight of your house. One of the reasons they use concrete blocks is they are cheaper than brick and larger so the wall goes up faster with block than with brick. The brick is more decorative but it is strong enough to support the weight of the house.


        General Disclaimer

        Any advice given here is general in nature and is not necessarily valid for your given area. If in doubt check with your local codes enforcement department for what is required when doing electrical, plumbing or structural work on your house. Permits may or may not be required in your area and home owners may not be able to DIY some tasks. I have no way of knowing if you have the skills needed to complete the tasks you are asking about, when in doubt seek professional assistance.

        My advice may be worth exactly what you pay me for it. :-) For the record I did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
         
        Posts: 891 | Location: Cary, NC | Registered: Aug 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        Anyone out here on the forum used twistfix or stitch ties to add ties to existing brick and block???
         
        Posts: 106 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        I haven't is there something about your brick that is causing you concern, like it is bowed out from the wall? Cracks?


        General Disclaimer

        Any advice given here is general in nature and is not necessarily valid for your given area. If in doubt check with your local codes enforcement department for what is required when doing electrical, plumbing or structural work on your house. Permits may or may not be required in your area and home owners may not be able to DIY some tasks. I have no way of knowing if you have the skills needed to complete the tasks you are asking about, when in doubt seek professional assistance.

        My advice may be worth exactly what you pay me for it. :-) For the record I did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
         
        Posts: 891 | Location: Cary, NC | Registered: Aug 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        Thanks Sparky,..I called a local mason and emailed him the photo's since I'm not sure what code (in Maryland) is for something of this nature. So may have them coming to look at it. Other disturbing part of this is fact that they set rim joist directly on brick, not on a treated plate with the foam under it (good thing Mike Holmes hasn't seen this!!! yet !!) the rest of my walls that I can see have rim joist on plate with foam then block below.
         
        Posts: 106 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of joecaption
        posted Hide Post
        Does not look like any thing I've seen before.
        No way would I have an outside wall resting on nothing more then a single row of bricks, tie or no ties.
        http://www.internationalbeams....al-Design-Manual.pdf


        joecaption
         
        Posts: 18039 | Location: Hartfield VA | Registered: Jan 31, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        The next floor joist over is 12 inches from the rim joist and does rest on the sill plate and then on block at both ends....maybe the builder thought this was "OK" for supporting outer wall or maybe this section was built on Friday before a holiday.
        I also see on a lot of the brick joints where the mortar only partially fills the gap,..I have found at least one joint where you can see a pinhole of daylight. in so far).
        The more I look at this the worse I feel, (wished I knew more 21 years ago when we bought the house new)
        and my eight other neighbors with identical house may not be to happy to hear about this....

         
        Posts: 106 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of joecaption
        posted Hide Post
        Those holes may well be just weep holes. There suppose to be there.
        There to allow a place for water and moisture to escape.


        joecaption
         
        Posts: 18039 | Location: Hartfield VA | Registered: Jan 31, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        The brick all the way across and along each course looks pretty much (not really very pretty) the same as whats shown in photo.I haven't found anything that would indicate any intentional weep holes inside or outside.
        After consulting with a couple knowledgeable people (engineer and structural lumber rep). This looks like it needs to be crossblocked (ladder framed) from parallel floor joist farther out from block wall (in this case 36", one that that only 12" would need to be removed) so it can span wall and be under 2 X 6 framing for outer wall.The flange on top and bottom edges of I beam (silent floor trus joist) rim joist only takes up outer 1 3/4 of the 2 X 6 so that would put the ladder framing ends just over 4" under the outer wall above. This is probably what they should have done when the house was built.Once again I wished I knew this 20 years ago when observing some of the work being done.
        Some people have said I should just cover this and forget about it,"house has been "OK" for 20 years now right", but I could not (in good conscience) do that and then not disclose this to anyone who may buy this house later on if we ever decided to move.

         
        Posts: 106 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        I believe that the I-joists are made with treated lumber so it may not be an issue having it directly on the masonry.

        http://www.woodbywy.com/produc...us-joist/tji-joists/

        If the brick isn't showing any structural issues after 20 years nothing is going to change that now. The bottom row of bricks would have gaps in some of the joints for weeping out water that gets behind the bricks.


        General Disclaimer

        Any advice given here is general in nature and is not necessarily valid for your given area. If in doubt check with your local codes enforcement department for what is required when doing electrical, plumbing or structural work on your house. Permits may or may not be required in your area and home owners may not be able to DIY some tasks. I have no way of knowing if you have the skills needed to complete the tasks you are asking about, when in doubt seek professional assistance.

        My advice may be worth exactly what you pay me for it. :-) For the record I did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
         
        Posts: 891 | Location: Cary, NC | Registered: Aug 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        Spoke with a rep for that type of I beam joist and sent him photo's, he also agrees this is not the way to support a two story wall. He recognized this brand of joist and said it has glu-lam flanges, the newer ones are different. I will read through the spec sheet on them to see if having it sit on brick is ok. I do see a vertical gap where brick meets block at corner of back of house, maybe it has always been there I can't tell yet and in looking at brick inside you can tell the mason built up to the rim joist (can see last course barely has any mortar under it). So this is not a case where mason does good brick foundation first and then rim joist goes on top... in process of getting inspector to come out and check this,..so stay tuned.
         
        Posts: 106 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        Is this a modular home.?
         
        Posts: 910 | Registered: Jan 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        Maybe a wide view picture of inside and outside would help.?
         
        Posts: 910 | Registered: Jan 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        No, not a modular,.. Am on street where same builder put up 21 houses (4 different models), there are 9 identical to ours (only difference is reversed layout). I have made initial contact to the builder since they pride themselves on quality and maybe they may want to help rectify this (worth a shot)
        Wall question runs from porch that juts out to corner where trellis is.

         
        Posts: 106 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        had to post again to put wider basement photo on here.....can't seem to get two pics onto same posting?

        back corner where trellis starts is on the left (outside above) and porch (which also juts inward) is foundation direction change seen to the right.

        This should make it easier to picture.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: measure2,

         
        Posts: 106 | Registered: Jan 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        Well that blew my first thought right out of the water.
        I will say this... According to the last photo posted Feb. 07,2014 at 09:20 AM.If the window located on the first floor between the porch and trellis is just above that vent pipe, You shouldn't be in any danger. If the trusses had been run in the other direction I would be very worried.

        The only thing I can think of is bulk head.?

        https://www.google.com/search?...24&tbm=isch&imgdii=_
         
        Posts: 910 | Registered: Jan 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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