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        Picture of SturdyNail
        posted
        Hello,

        This is a follow-on to my problem removing the fascia Fascia removal discussion

        I've resorted to removing just enough of the shingles to allow me to remove the existing drip edge. It's become a bigger problem than I had hoped for. I've uncovered one area where there was no felt under the shingles No felt under shingles. I checked, no felt came up with the shingle I removed. That makes me think there are more felt-less square feet under my shingles.
        So, how bad of a problem is that?

        I was as careful as I could be when removing shingles, but, when I had to pry up the nails driven through the shingles above, a lot of holes were created in the shingles I was hoping to keep. Holes in remaining shingles. Can I still use those shingles if I plug the holes with roofing tar?

        Now, this might be the biggest problem; the 5.5 feet of roofing closest to the eaves has some super sticky stuff under the shingles. It is near impossible to ply a shingle away from that backer. Sticky gunk cements the shingles to the roof. Does anyone have a suggestion on how I can break shingles free from that black cement?

        In general, do you have any suggestions for any ways I could make this job easier and/or less destructive?

        Thanks in advance.
         
        Posts: 296 | Location: Western NewYork | Registered: Jan 26, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of Jaybee
        posted Hide Post
        quote:
        Originally posted by SturdyNail:
        Hello,

        This is a follow-on to my problem removing the fascia Fascia removal discussion

        I've resorted to removing just enough of the shingles to allow me to remove the existing drip edge. It's become a bigger problem than I had hoped for. I've uncovered one area where there was no felt under the shingles No felt under shingles. I checked, no felt came up with the shingle I removed. That makes me think there are more felt-less square feet under my shingles.
        So, how bad of a problem is that?

        It's one of those "probably will be OK but would be better with felt" things. The felt extends the life of the shingle and acts as a final watershield to shed water that may find it's way underneath the shingles. While I would never shingle without installing new felt I also would not tear up a fairly new roof like yours just to make sure there was felt under all of it.

        I was as careful as I could be when removing shingles, but, when I had to pry up the nails driven through the shingles above, a lot of holes were created in the shingles I was hoping to keep. Holes in remaining shingles. Can I still use those shingles if I plug the holes with roofing tar?

        Again, certainly better without the holes but not a deal-breaker if they are there - especially if you plan to fill them. The holes should all be up underneath the seal strip of the shingle layer on top of it.

        Now, this might be the biggest problem; the 5.5 feet of roofing closest to the eaves has some super sticky stuff under the shingles. It is near impossible to ply a shingle away from that backer. Sticky gunk cements the shingles to the roof. Does anyone have a suggestion on how I can break shingles free from that black cement?

        No easy way. You can try slowly prying up under the shingles and goo. Works better if the goo is warm. If it refused to come off, you may have to resort to overlaying some of the old, stuck shingles with new shingles. For the third time in this response, not an ideal situation but will likely work out OK.

        In general, do you have any suggestions for any ways I could make this job easier and/or less destructive?

        Easier? Hire it out. But of course much more costly. A pro roofer would just tear everything off on that side and install new felt and new shingles. You are likely stuck just doing the best you can to make it work and look OK.

        Thanks in advance.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jaybee,


        Jaybee
         
        Posts: 10326 | Location: Knoxville, Tennessee | Registered: Sep 27, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of SturdyNail
        posted Hide Post
        Thanks Jaybee. Your comments give me the confidence to keep forging ahead. But, there is no doubt this part of the project is a real PITA! which goes to my other recent post "Kudos to the people who do this for a living".

        I did have a pro roofer take a look and he said they'd do exactly what you said they'd do. They'd just rip it all off without attempting to preserve any existing. They need to get in and get out.

        Thanks again.
         
        Posts: 296 | Location: Western NewYork | Registered: Jan 26, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of GardenSprite
        posted Hide Post
        SN, I'm sure I'm not the only one who's been following your activities and wondering how you have the patience and stamina to persevere given all the "surprises" you encounter.

        Hang in there!
         
        Posts: 1914 | Registered: Oct 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of SturdyNail
        posted Hide Post
        Thanks GardenSprite. There have been more "surprises" than I'd like. The most recent challenge with the black gunk cementing the shingles to the roof is really kicking my butt. I know my wife is getting tired of reminding me to come in the house and the whole project is taking me about 20 times longer than I estimated. Still, I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't get some sense of satisfaction from the work, so I'll "hang in there".
         
        Posts: 296 | Location: Western NewYork | Registered: Jan 26, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of GardenSprite
        posted Hide Post
        SN, I think you hit on one of the reasons why people enjoy working on their houses if they can, as opposed to hiring someone. But not only is there satisfaction from the actual work, it's from the problem solving and confidence you gain in every project, especially from the surprises. It's like a boot camp for homeowners. Sometimes it turns into more like special forces training for homeowners.

        It's occurred to me that the experiences of DIYers could be interesting subjects for books, not necessarily instructional ones but humorous ones.

        Peter Mayle has included anecdotes on remodeling in Provence vs. England in his series of books on his life in France. The stories about French contractors would make any homeowner cringe.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: GardenSprite,
         
        Posts: 1914 | Registered: Oct 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of SturdyNail
        posted Hide Post
        Another unpleasant surprise knocked me backward today. I finally reached the point where I can nail the new, replacement, shingles in place.

        Before I purchased the replacement shingles, I called the contractor who re-shingled my house around seven years ago. He told me what type of shingles he installed (Certainteed, Landmark (Architectural)) and he told me the name of the distributor he used.
        I went to the distributor and told him the brand and color of the shingles I needed.

        As I nailed my first replacement shingle in place, I realized that the replacement shingles are the wrong size Confused They are longer, wider, and much thicker than the originals.
        I loaded the newly purchased shingles into my car and headed back to the distributor with the intention of returning the shingles. At the distributor, I was told that Certainteed no longer sells the smaller (standard dimensions) shingles.
        After checking with a few other distributors, I am convinced that the standard shingle size (36" long) is no longer available.

        Unless someone on this site has a better idea, I will have to (re)purchase the shingles that are the wrong size. I'll need to cut about 1/2" off the width so that the reveal of the newly purchased shingles will align with the existing shingles.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: SturdyNail,
         
        Posts: 296 | Location: Western NewYork | Registered: Jan 26, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of GardenSprite
        posted Hide Post
        I sense a Chicken Soup for DIYers in the making. Wink Seriously, you could write a book about your experiences.
         
        Posts: 1914 | Registered: Oct 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of joecaption
        posted Hide Post
        Trying to follow your logic, architectural are the easiest shingles to lay in my option. The is no tabs to line up like on 3, tab shingles.
        There is no "seam" that has to line up.
        Just lay the shingle and cut the last one in the row shorter. As long as your butt joints are at least 6" apart you will be fine. Architectural shingles can be cut anyplace in the shingle to get the butts to not line up with the one above or below it.
        I've also not witnessed shingles from the same manufacturer with the same style name and info being changed so there a different size or thickness. Sound like you may have the wrong shingles.


        joecaption
         
        Posts: 18026 | Location: Hartfield VA | Registered: Jan 31, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of Jaybee
        posted Hide Post
        I'm with Joe - wondering if it's something like your original shingles were a 30-year product and the replacements were 40 or 50 year rated. That would make for a thicker shingle.

        The only messing around with size changes I've run into is I've found some brands that are 'metric' shingles - making them longer than 36". Usually the only problem with replacement shingles is a color change due to time and different manufacturing lots.

        All that aside though, any slight difference in length or height can be easily compensated by changing your overlap. Butt edges on architectural shingles are impossible to see from the ground so if you have several rows of longer shingles, no-one will ever know. It should be that the worst thing you'll have to is to cut the last shingle in each run a little shorter to weave it into the pattern.


        Jaybee
         
        Posts: 10326 | Location: Knoxville, Tennessee | Registered: Sep 27, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of SturdyNail
        posted Hide Post
        DOH! I know why the thickness of the new shingle was so much greater than the thickness of the "old" shingle.
        I was dealing with two shingles stuck together Frown
        Funny thing is, I took the shingle(s) back to the distributor to show them how different the thickness of new shingle is. Three guys working the counter totally missed the fact that they were looking at two shingles stuck together.
        I might have an excuse for not noticing that the shingles were stuck together; this is the first time I've done any roofing. Still, I'm embarrassed that I did not notice that the shingles were stuck together. But, the guys working at the distributor; what's their excuse? Smile

        So, Jaybee and Joe, I agree that the differences in length of the architectural shingles doesn't matter much. The width, however, does make a difference.
        If I align the tops of the keyways, the bottom edge of the new shingle drops 1/2" below the bottom edge of the old shingle (see the attached image).
        I tried taking 1/2" off the bottom edge of the new shingle, but the cut edge was a little too raggedy. So, I said, "the heck with it. I need to move on.", and just aligned the factory bottom edge of the new with the bottom edge of the old. That didn't come out very well. The top 1/2" of the keyway ended up under the shingle above it--which created a noticible space.

        So, once again, unless someone has a better suggestion, I'm going to trim the bottom edge of the new shingle so that the tops of the keyways align.

        Does anyone have a good tip on how to make a nice, clean, crisp, cut though the length of the architectural edge of the shingles?

        Thanks again!

        Align top of keyways; old v. new Certainteed Landmark
         
        Posts: 296 | Location: Western NewYork | Registered: Jan 26, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of joecaption
        posted Hide Post
        Just align the bottom of the shingle.


        joecaption
         
        Posts: 18026 | Location: Hartfield VA | Registered: Jan 31, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of Jaybee
        posted Hide Post
        Aligning the bottom seems like the best way to do. I've reread your description several times now and unless that 1/2" difference makes for a huge difference in the shadow lines I can't see where it will be much of a problem. It does sound like you have a totally different shingle though.

        I would try to avoid cutting the bottom edge - even a perfect cut will leave that edge more exposed to water damage over time. However - to cut it just turn the shingle over, use a straight edge and a razor knife, score part way through and just bend & break off the edge.


        Jaybee
         
        Posts: 10326 | Location: Knoxville, Tennessee | Registered: Sep 27, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of SturdyNail
        posted Hide Post
        I called Certainteed's customer support to make sure I had the right replacement shingle.
        The existing roof is Certainteed Landmark. The replacement shingles I bought are Certainteed Landmark. The difference is that, shortly after my roof was done (around 7 years ago), Certainteed changed from the customary 12" x 36" format to a larger, metric, format (translates to around 13 3/8" x 38 3/4").

        The guy from Certainteed thought I should trim the bottom so the tops of the keyways align.

        I didn't want to cut the bottom edge. It is a huge pain. I did put up a few courses where I didn't cut the bottom edge, but I didn't like the way it looked.
         
        Posts: 296 | Location: Western NewYork | Registered: Jan 26, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of SturdyNail
        posted Hide Post
        OK Joe and Jaybee, I've come around to your way of thinking regarding avoiding cutting the bottom edge of the shingle panel.
        It adds so much time to trim the bottom edge. Since the bottom edge is double layered in sections, I can't just score the panel and snap it. I have to cut through all the material.

        I am concerned about the open "pockets" above the keyways. The newly purchased shingles have a 5 1/2" reveal, but the existing shingles only have a 5" reveal. So, when I tuck a new shingle up and under an existing shingle, a 1/2" "pocket" is formed.
        It seems that water or snow could get "held" in those pockets. Also, that causes the shingle sitting above and over the 1/2" pocket to have unsupported material. That unsupported material will be susceptible to cracking if anyone walks on that part of the roof.

        Thanks again for your help.
         
        Posts: 296 | Location: Western NewYork | Registered: Jan 26, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of SturdyNail
        posted Hide Post
        quote:
        Originally posted by SturdyNail:
        OK Joe and Jaybee, I've come around to your way of thinking regarding avoiding cutting the bottom edge of the shingle panel.
        It adds so much time to trim the bottom edge. Since the bottom edge is double layered in sections, I can't just score the panel and snap it. I have to cut through all the material.

        I am concerned about the open "pockets" above the keyways. The newly purchased shingles have a 5 1/2" reveal, but the existing shingles only have a 5" reveal. So, when I tuck a new shingle up and under an existing shingle, 1/2" "pockets" are formed at the top of the keyways.
        It seems that water or snow could get "held" in those pockets. Also, that causes the shingle sitting above and over the 1/2" pockets to have unsupported material. That unsupported material will be susceptible to cracking if anyone walks on that part of the roof.

        Thanks again for your help.
         
        Posts: 296 | Location: Western NewYork | Registered: Jan 26, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of Jaybee
        posted Hide Post
        I think that small 1/2" area will not cause any problems. The nice thing about architectural shingles is that they are one solid piece with no cuts. The only "problem" I can see with matching up the metric shingles to your existing ones is whatever slight visual difference you can see from the ground.


        Jaybee
         
        Posts: 10326 | Location: Knoxville, Tennessee | Registered: Sep 27, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of SturdyNail
        posted Hide Post
        Hello,

        My roofing saga continues...

        There is a noticeable gap where the rake drip edge meets the eave drip edge.
        Gap-where-drip-edges-meet

        The rake drip edge is closer to the fascia trim further up toward the peak, but it did drift away at the eave.

        Is that gap a potential problem area?
        Can you think of a way I could make that look better?

        By the way, I know that the shingle extends too far over the drip edge--I just haven't had time to trim it back yet.

        Thanks in advance.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: SturdyNail,
         
        Posts: 296 | Location: Western NewYork | Registered: Jan 26, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of joecaption
        posted Hide Post
        Hard to see from that picture but If I had to guess it almost looks like someone installed that drip edge over the old layer of shingles and set it against the over hanging shingles instead of tight to the rake board.
        And left the other one to short.
        Either way I see no way to pretty it up without removing the drip caps and reinstalling the right way.


        joecaption
         
        Posts: 18026 | Location: Hartfield VA | Registered: Jan 31, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of SturdyNail
        posted Hide Post
        Thanks Joe,
        There are no shingles under the rake drip edge. I'm the one who put it on.
        The problem is that, higher up the rake, the drip edge is closer to 1/8" from the rake board (which is the spacing that was recommended to me), but that gap grows to 1/2 - 3/4" by the time it reaches the eave (the gap you see in the picture). I couldn't get it any closer without wrinkling the drip edge.
         
        Posts: 296 | Location: Western NewYork | Registered: Jan 26, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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