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        Point of use hot water heaters Sign In/Join 
        Picture of GardenSprite
        posted
        My father is considering having a small hot water heater installed in his bathroom so that he can have hot water without wasting water while the tap water heats up.

        I recall some negative aspects written in previous posts, but haven't been able to locate those posts just now.

        Any comments? Would such a small water heater help reduce wasted water? Do these generally run on electricity or gas? If the latter, I assume they need to be connected to a main gas line somewhere, so installation would be more complex.

        Thanks for any suggestions.

        (Also pushing down the spammer)
         
        Posts: 1923 | Registered: Oct 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of Jaybee
        posted Hide Post
        Most small point of use water heaters are electric but some are gas. This would include both small tank WH's or instant tankless versions.

        What to get depends on what he will be using the hot water for. If just for the sink, then a small tank unit will be the least expensive to install. Here's 4 gallon version from Lowe's for $175 that runs on 110v.

        http://www.lowes.com/pd_26603-...6page%3D2&facetInfo=

        Generally, if he wants to use it for a shower, then a tankless will work better, if many times more expensive. However, there is one trick I've used several times that can combine the cheaper tank version with lots of continuous hot water: Install the 4 gallon tank near the bathroom, but use the hot water line from your regular water heater as the supply line to the small tank unit. This way, you will have hot water right away and for the first few gallons. While the first bit of supply water into the small tank will be the tepid stuff that is trapped in the lines, it will mix with the remaining hot water in the small tank to stay fairly hot. By the time all the original hot four gallons is gone, the tank will be fillled with real hot water from the larger water heater.

        If you have 110v power available nearby, your total cost will be the under $200 for materials plus install labor.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jaybee,


        Jaybee
         
        Posts: 10341 | Location: Knoxville, Tennessee | Registered: Sep 27, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of CommonwealthSparky
        posted Hide Post
        Most older homes end up needing a service upgrade. AS in lacking the breaker space needed in the load center. The current draw for such a unit is most often rather large and wiring for a 240v supply is needed.
        Spam bump Big Grin


        Popeye only reached for the Spinach can as a last resort...
         
        Posts: 1448 | Location: Central Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 02, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of Frodo
        posted Hide Post
        120-v point of use


        have installed many 120 volt point of use heaters
        they are perfict for washing hands and shaving


        https://www.youtube.com/*****?v=vn7bkncf1_E
         
        Posts: 3849 | Location: I live in southern mississippi | Registered: Jun 01, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of GardenSprite
        posted Hide Post
        Thanks for the answers and suggestions.

        Jaybee, the tank would only be used for the sink, not the shower. The Lowes tank seems reasonable to me and would fit sizewise in the very small bathroom. The one Frodo linked to is a tiny bit smaller and could also work.

        We would probably buy from Lowes or HD to get the military discount.

        I'm trying to visualize how your alternate suggestion would work. Sorry...takes me awhile to understand concepts that are unfamiliar to me. Frown
        So the smaller tank would not be connected directly to the hot water line for the sink, but rather to the hot water heater down in the basement? Does this create some kind of bypass to allow the hot water tank to send hot water directly to the sink without any being siphoned off to, say, the shower or kitchen sink? I.e., a direct rather than convoluted path?

        There is a 110V outlet in the bathroom, but if I remember correctly it's across the bathroom, so there would have to be some way to direct it out of the footpath or it could become a trip hazard. It would be running along the bathtub base. We'd have to work on that aspect.

        CS, this is a very old home but Dad periodically upgraded himself, including most recently when he built his shed. I'm not really sure what "lacking breaker space in load center means." Sorry. I'm not sure what Dad added when he connected to his shed, but he had some help from his electrician friend. I'll have to check on this.

        Frodo, washing and shaving is exactly the purpose for a supplemental tank.

        Thanks again to each of you for your help with this issue.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: GardenSprite,
         
        Posts: 1923 | Registered: Oct 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of Jaybee
        posted Hide Post
        quote:
        Originally posted by GardenSprite:
        Thanks for the answers and suggestions.

        Jaybee, the tank would only be used for the sink, not the shower. The Lowes tank seems reasonable to me and would fit sizewise in the very small bathroom. The one Frodo linked to is a tiny bit smaller and could also work.

        We would probably buy from Lowes or HD to get the military discount.

        I'm trying to visualize how your alternate suggestion would work. Sorry...takes me awhile to understand concepts that are unfamiliar to me. Frown
        So the smaller tank would not be connected directly to the hot water line for the sink, but rather to the hot water heater down in the basement? Does this create some kind of bypass to allow the hot water tank to send hot water directly to the sink without any being siphoned off to, say, the shower or kitchen sink? I.e., a direct rather than convoluted path?

        Fairly simple really - In a normal water heater hook-up, the supply line into the WH would be the cold side. The WH heats it up and you get hot water from the WH output side. You have both hot and cold supply lines already under the sink (where you would put the small water heater) so in my version, you would take the existing hot water supply under the sink and connect it to the input side of the new, small water heater. This way your hot faucet will continue to run hot water even if you manage to use more than the 2 to 4 gallons that is made from the new, small WH.

        There is a 110V outlet in the bathroom, but if I remember correctly it's across the bathroom, so there would have to be some way to direct it out of the footpath or it could become a trip hazard. It would be running along the bathtub base. We'd have to work on that aspect.

        This is the area where it can get tricky (ie - more expensive). You will need to hardwire in an outlet under the sink for the new WH to plug into. Way too dangerous in a bathroom to run cords around on the floor. Also, even the 110v WH will have a large amperage pull. Odds are that it will need a dedicated 20a circuit. This would entail tapping into your main box and running a line to the bathroom.

        CS, this is a very old home but Dad periodically upgraded himself, including most recently when he built his shed. I'm not really sure what "lacking breaker space in load center means." Sorry. I'm not sure what Dad added when he connected to his shed, but he had some help from his electrician friend. I'll have to check on this.

        This simply means if there are any open breaker spaces in the main box. Like I just mentioned above, it appears that you will need to run in a new 'home run' line from the breaker box to the bath. This will need to be a dedicated circuit so it will have it's own, new breaker. If your box is already full, it becomes harder to add another circuit although there are tricks like using half-breakers that can get it done. If the house electric is so old that it's still fuses, then it could get harder still to add the extra line.

        Frodo, washing and shaving is exactly the purpose for a supplemental tank.

        There is one other possible solution that is less expensive and requires less of an electrical load. This would be a separate, single spigot that provides hot water only - it would not be a part of the existing faucet, but rather a separate, single faucet like this one:

        http://www.faucetdirect.com/in...OrsbsCFaTm7AodkxYANw

        This would give him hot water for shaving. Not so great for washing hands etc as it only comes out at one hot temperature. But it's smaller and less expensive.


        Thanks again to each of you for your help with this issue.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jaybee,


        Jaybee
         
        Posts: 10341 | Location: Knoxville, Tennessee | Registered: Sep 27, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of Frodo
        posted Hide Post
        they hook up under the sink to the water lines that are there.disconnect the 3/8" lines going to the sink, discard.. replace the single cold water cut off valve with a double cut off valve
        hook up new line from the cold water to the inlet side of insta hot then line from insta hot to sink...depending on make and model....easy to do...you should have a 110/120 v plug in available close by..if not, one will have to be provided

        they can be hooked to the hot side of a sink valve, and use the cold to temper
        all depends on how its plumbed
        no need to have just hot water,

        a check valve will be needed ton the inlet side to stop hot water from going into the cold pipe..$15 bucks+-
        depending on model, some come with unit

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: Frodo,


        https://www.youtube.com/*****?v=vn7bkncf1_E
         
        Posts: 3849 | Location: I live in southern mississippi | Registered: Jun 01, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of CommonwealthSparky
        posted Hide Post
        quote:
        Originally posted by Frodo:
        120-v point of use


        have installed many 120 volt point of use heaters
        they are perfict for washing hands and shaving


        Thanks, I never knew they were on the market. Learning something everyday. Wink


        Popeye only reached for the Spinach can as a last resort...
         
        Posts: 1448 | Location: Central Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 02, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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