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        Rehab Addict: Terrible/Incompetent Sign In/Join 
        Picture of GardenSprite
        posted Hide Post
        [QUOTE]Originally posted by CommonwealthSparky:

        Did see the episode where Nic did "lead testing" on a bedroom wall. The producers really need to research proper lead testing methods. Just showing a bedroom wall paint test is grossly incomplete. {As well as thinking a 90 year old house is lead free}. HUD usually tests window casing, stool and aprons, door jambs, etc. Any painted surface up to a certain height.

        QUOTE]


        Several years ago I wanted to have the paint in my house tested and contacted one of the contractors from, I think, an EPA certified list (it's been years ago and my memory now fades after a few minutes Frown).

        The contractor explained the different levels and thoroughness of testing. The option I wanted was, I was told, required to also test the soil around the garage, some kind of a package deal in terms of extensiveness of lead contamination.

        When I asked what remediation for lead in soil consisted of, I was really surprised. Although I don't remember all the details, it didn't involve removal of the soil but rather just turning it under....some very limited option like that.

        I thought that coupling the level of indoor testing with outdoor testing made no sense, nor did just turning under any alleged lead based soil. I can do that myself.

        I couldn't help wondering who wrote the regulations and how much special interest had been been factored into them.
         
        Posts: 1964 | Registered: Oct 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of GardenSprite
        posted Hide Post
        quote:
        Originally posted by Jaybee:

        So the basic rule of reality TV is that if it looks real, then it isn't while if it looks fake, then it's real.



        A conundrum of tv programming and reality shows, I think?
         
        Posts: 1964 | Registered: Oct 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of Jaybee
        posted Hide Post
        The whole lead abatement debacle is a well intentioned program that is a total disaster. I'm a certified RRP contractor and have wisely decided to just walk away from any projects that contain lead.

        While there are many lead testing systems on the market, currently none are recognized by the EPA so it is impossible to test. I know I tend to rant whenever the topic of lead comes up but it's such an incredibility stupid and poorly thought out program than I can't help myself.


        Jaybee
         
        Posts: 10476 | Location: Knoxville, Tennessee | Registered: Sep 27, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of CommonwealthSparky
        posted Hide Post
        quote:
        Originally posted by GardenSprite:
        [QUOTE]Originally posted by CommonwealthSparky:

        Did see the episode where Nic did "lead testing" on a bedroom wall. The producers really need to research proper lead testing methods. Just showing a bedroom wall paint test is grossly incomplete. {As well as thinking a 90 year old house is lead free}. HUD usually tests window casing, stool and aprons, door jambs, etc. Any painted surface up to a certain height.

        QUOTE]


        Several years ago I wanted to have the paint in my house tested and contacted one of the contractors from, I think, an EPA certified list (it's been years ago and my memory now fades after a few minutes Frown).

        The contractor explained the different levels and thoroughness of testing. The option I wanted was, I was told, required to also test the soil around the garage, some kind of a package deal in terms of extensiveness of lead contamination.

        When I asked what remediation for lead in soil consisted of, I was really surprised. Although I don't remember all the details, it didn't involve removal of the soil but rather just turning it under....some very limited option like that.

        I thought that coupling the level of indoor testing with outdoor testing made no sense, nor did just turning under any alleged lead based soil. I can do that myself.

        I couldn't help wondering who wrote the regulations and how much special interest had been been factored into them.


        We have been down that road with HUD people on a job. They stated in writing that lead was present in the soil to a certain factor, according to their pre inspection testing. Think of old garage doors and all the times they have been scraped and those lead scraps dropping into the soil. As long as we did not disturb it during construction and later cover the pre existing condition with soil and mulch we were home free.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: CommonwealthSparky,


        Popeye only reached for the Spinach can as a last resort...
         
        Posts: 1576 | Location: Central Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 02, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of CommonwealthSparky
        posted Hide Post
        quote:
        Originally posted by Jaybee:
        The whole lead abatement debacle is a well intentioned program that is a total disaster. I'm a certified RRP contractor and have wisely decided to just walk away from any projects that contain lead.

        While there are many lead testing systems on the market, currently none are recognized by the EPA so it is impossible to test. I know I tend to rant whenever the topic of lead comes up but it's such an incredibility stupid and poorly thought out program than I can't help myself.


        Yes we have quacked about this very same issue here before. Wink
        My last lead abatement class the instructor noted EPA and HUD still had two contrasting views on lead paint issues. Muck akin to each having a wee bit of the kingdom {federal budget appropriations} to protect.


        Popeye only reached for the Spinach can as a last resort...
         
        Posts: 1576 | Location: Central Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 02, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of GardenSprite
        posted Hide Post
        [QUOTE]Originally posted by Jaybee:

        I'm a certified RRP contractor and have wisely decided to just walk away from any projects that contain lead. [QUOTE]


        As I think would many who don't want to deal with the complexity of regulations, or the concern of homeowners who don't have the funds or want to pay them to meet the standards imposed.


        [QUOTE]
        While there are many lead testing systems on the market, currently none are recognized by the EPA so it is impossible to test. [QUOTE]


        ...thereby apparently making compliance difficult if not impossible?


        To add to the inappropriateness of the rigid government standards applied to Americans is the fact that Chinese imports are well documemented to contain lead, and sometimes in toys. Yet as best as I can determine from what I've read, the Chinese have yet to cooperate.

        So I guess the Chinese can defy our need for lead free products but we can't.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: GardenSprite,
         
        Posts: 1964 | Registered: Oct 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of GardenSprite
        posted Hide Post
        quote:
        Originally posted by CommonwealthSparky:

        We have been down that road with HUD people on a job. They stated in writing that lead was present in the soil to a certain factor, according to their pre inspection testing. Think of old garage doors and all the times they have been scraped and those lead scraps dropping into the soil. As long as we did not disturb it during construction and later cover the pre existing condition with soil and mulch we were home free.



        This to me isn't a remediation or solution at all, just leaves the lead in place. The area still can't be used for vegetable gardening, although it could be used for ornamentals.

        But it smacks to me of imposing regulations that don't solve the problem....and as you observed, retaining a share of the federal money pie. The regulations shouldn't be subject to overlapping jurisdiction, but that's the way it is.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: GardenSprite,
         
        Posts: 1964 | Registered: Oct 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of CommonwealthSparky
        posted Hide Post
        Well it was a money issue more than anything, as I recall. Sure the more they tested the more lead they would find. And each house received "X" amount of grant monies, but then in turn broken down. As in replacement windows, electrical upgrades, lead abatement, etc. Not sure how a new oil burner would fit into lead abatement concerns, or most other upgrades for that matter. But it was done on a regular basis. Not sure either if the program still exists as people in the know see little in the present pipeline.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: CommonwealthSparky,


        Popeye only reached for the Spinach can as a last resort...
         
        Posts: 1576 | Location: Central Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 02, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of CommonwealthSparky
        posted Hide Post
        quote:
        Originally posted by GardenSprite:
        [QUOTE]Originally posted by Jaybee:

        I'm a certified RRP contractor and have wisely decided to just walk away from any projects that contain lead. [QUOTE]


        As I think would many who don't want to deal with the complexity of regulations, or the concern of homeowners who don't have the funds or want to pay them to meet the standards imposed.


        [QUOTE]
        While there are many lead testing systems on the market, currently none are recognized by the EPA so it is impossible to test. [QUOTE]


        ...thereby apparently making compliance difficult if not impossible?


        To add to the inappropriateness of the rigid government standards applied to Americans is the fact that Chinese imports are well documemented to contain lead, and sometimes in toys. Yet as best as I can determine from what I've read, the Chinese have yet to cooperate.

        So I guess the Chinese can defy our need for lead free products but we can't.



        Sadly the Chinese will do what they want to and when they want to. Its up to the American consumer to make change, and that is a daunting task indeed.
        Much like our EPA cracking down harshly on fossil fuels, in China they issue 99¢ 3M particulate masks. Razz

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: CommonwealthSparky,


        Popeye only reached for the Spinach can as a last resort...
         
        Posts: 1576 | Location: Central Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 02, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of GardenSprite
        posted Hide Post
        Unfortunately that's true. And many consumers aren't going to make changes because they're addicted to consumption. Even those who aren't have difficult finding products that aren't Chinese made, or processed.

        The other sad aspect is how the Chinese government is exploiting its own populace. I doubt if $.99 masks provide much protection, especially if they're made in China...and who knows what contamination there is in those masks?

        China has become an imperialist nation.
         
        Posts: 1964 | Registered: Oct 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        we had some testing in Minneapolis 15 or 20 years ago that showed dangerously elevated levels of soil lead... from Ethyl gasoline before it was eliminated, along all the major roadways. solution: stop talking about it. if it was in front yards, a few properties were
        excavated and new soil was dumped in.

        in Oregon in the last part of December, they won $1 billion in settlements from the lead paint makers. appealed, of course.


        sig: if this is a new economy, how come they still want my old-fashioned money?
         
        Posts: 5849 | Location: North Burbs, MN | Registered: Mar 14, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of CommonwealthSparky
        posted Hide Post
        Lead from gas was a major issue as well, as you stated. But with the advent of unleaded fuel that problem has subsided. Mainly because it rains a lot. So it ends back up in the water supply. But that number two drops as time marches on.
        Is it not odd all the facts tucked away in that brain box we walk around with. Another useless factoid from lead abatement classes surfaces... Smile


        Popeye only reached for the Spinach can as a last resort...
         
        Posts: 1576 | Location: Central Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 02, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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