I have a 69 Chevolet Impala 4 door sport. It has a 350 with a 4 bbl. I want to change from the points that it has in it to the electronic points that I heard about on your show. I am having problems finding some. I am told that the only choice that I have is to change the whole distributor. Can anyone help me locate the parts that I need. I am in SC near Hilton Head.
From the top... Gm went to HEI (High Energy Ignition) in mid '74. Your '69 runs a resistance wire from the ignition switch to the ignition coil. This wire possibly looks like an old fashioned cloth braided wrapped wire in appearance. (mine was off-white) You need to remove this wire and run a straight wire (14 Ga. should do it, 12 Ga. is better) from the ign switch to the distributor. Discard the coil. Set the dist just as you did the points one. Oops. You did make sure where the rotor wa aiming before you pulled the dist out, didn't you? Firing order marked on the intake manifold. 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 Drivers side front is #1 Drivers side is 1-3-5-7 front to rear Passenger side is 2-4-6-8 front to rear
Junkyard has lots of GM Hei distributors. Reset plug gap to .045" Timing is at the '69 specs. 8 Deg BTDC ??? You tell me. The Hei dist you need will have a vacuum advance on it. No advance?, Too new! Remember to check the vacuum diagram and make sure it holds vacuum and the arm moves. That should get you started!
Of course, HEI distributors don't fit properly on some engines, and require the replacement of the air cleaner assembly.
The points replacement you're looking for uses the stock distributor and advance. Many car restorers are going to the electronic "points" because of low maintenance, and high reliability. Their web-site is: http://www.pertronix.com
Most put on a MSD Ignition box too.My father's 1962 Impala with a 409 has one on it converted to electronic ignition done by the person whom restored it.
Posts: 321 | Location: Holton,Mi,Usa | Registered: Aug 18, 2004
MSD is an acronym for Multiple Spark Discharge. It's designed to deliver multiple sparks to ignite racing fuel and methanol....
I'm sure 69impala isn't interested in installing an MSD box (for about $500) that isn't going to make his car run ANY better, start ANY better, or improve his gas mileage..at all.
Another "Buzz word" Freddy....like "turbo" and "NOS"......
Sam is right. I just want the car to run better and get better gas mileage. I will not race this car and I am not really concerned about speed. Even though I will drive it on the interstate I will not have to out run nobody.
I know this is really old but I have to comment. If anything for future reference.
Sam is almost completely incorrect on this.
Sure, that's what MSD stands for, but that DOES NOT mean it is a race only ignition. They have a Blaster, 5-series, 6-series, 7-series, digital, and many more.
The 5-series was always for stock motors at stock RPMs, but capable of much higher if needed. The multiple spark burns fuel more efficiently and completely. It is NOT just for burning "race fuel". Do you even know what race fuel is and why you need it??? Of course not.
The 6-series is for stock AND modified motors up to around 13:1 compression, and capable of much higher than typical RPMs. My 13:1 355 SBC runs awesome with an MSD6AL box and billet distributor up to 7500+ rpm. Sure, a 7-series would likely give me a tiny bit more power and combustion burn, but I don't need it for the cost considering I have a good box already.
A good ignition system, like an MSD box, will most DEFINITELY make a motor "run better, start better, and improve gas mileage". I suggest you go to their web site or dedicated car sites for more info if you are interested.
Yes, the Petronix is a great little item, and I am not at all saying you need an MSD box, but don't write off a high quality ignition SYSTEM due to some misinformation you read on a message board.
Posts: 189 | Location: NYS | Registered: Nov 13, 2007
Yes but if you read Wakes thread, he said the person who restord it "before" is father got the car put it on... most of those "bolt ons" where done because they looked cool back then and even now with the new gen rice burner's, and 69 said e "just wanted it to run better and efficiently" so the expensive spark boxes, though they look good and get the ooo's unless the motor is set to run and is matched to these gajets don't need them! a stock hei will do just fine on a basicly stock motor improve performance and mileage and get rid of some extra wieght to boot! For everyday normal use the cost far exceeds the benifit of most of that stuff! I knew a guy who was one of the most feard hotrodder in our area (till everyone found out) nobody would offer to run him.. he had a duel tunnel ram wih a pair of 750's on top that looked like it worked but it was all a dummy, he was running a crate 350/2 bl. that sounded and acted good enough to fool everyone!
it is better to be amused by viewing than be annoyed by participating! go fish!
I'm not saying it is required at all. I am just saying Sam's derision of MSD as "race only" to burn "race fuel or methanol" (that one made me laugh) is not at all accurate, probably due to lack of experience with such systems, and an MSD system would not be a bad thing.
Required? No. Detrimental? Not at all.
I also strongly disagree that an ignition system would be installed simply for "looks".
Posts: 189 | Location: NYS | Registered: Nov 13, 2007
I have been watching this thread and just had to respond. I have an "unconventional" car that I run a pertronix ignition in. It is a '67 pro-street BUG with a 2332cc engine. (I drag it in the 1/8 mile). Although I really like the pertronix ignition in my 009 distributor, I am going to an MSD set-up ;'cause I need the juice at higher RPM. I am running a 10:1 compression with dual dellorto 48mm carbs. The MSD series 5 is necessary as no matter how much I dial in the carbs, I don't have a hot enough spark to burn the amount of fuel being sent to the combustion chamber, therfore, although the Dyno is telling me I am dialed in, the stoker is still running a bit on the rich side for me, indicating I need a hotter spark to burn the air/fuel mixture. I agree totally with speedy petey, it is not just for race fuel (I run sunoco 94 octane) but it will improve overall performance, economy and most importantly for me, keep my head temp and oil temp in-check! These aircooled require very efficient combustion along with dead_nuts_on timing or they WILL run hot! I have no idea how this would translate to a big block set-up but I would assume the principles are the same. Maybe my assumption is totally bogus. Make sense?
Well, Pete, and Wafredrick...and all of the other "experts" out there...
I'm not a stranger to "speed equipment", I used to run a "Speed Shop" and dealt with "racers" and "experts" on a daily basis....
My suggestion was not in any way to put down MSD...I was simply stating that a Petronix conversion would be the most economical, and reliable way to get away from points.
MSD makes a great product...but hanging an MSD on a stock Chevy V-8 is a little like overkill. The MSD unit has features this guy will probably never use...or want. So why pay for something you don't need?
Not everybody has a huge disposable income to lavish on his car...like some people.
BTW,In2it...Why were you running an old 009 distributor on a high performance multi carb VW in the first place? Everybody knows one of the first things you upgrade when you go racing is the ignition...009 indeed...that's like putting a flathead V-8 in a flying saucer.
First, I NEVER professed to be an expert. After 25 years of messing around with this stuff I like to think I know what I am talking about, but I am no expert. So the dramatic comments are unwarranted.
quote:
Originally posted by Sam: MSD makes a great product...but hanging an MSD on a stock Chevy V-8 is a little like overkill. The MSD unit has features this guy will probably never use...or want. So why pay for something you don't need?
No one said he "should" install an MSD box. I simply stated that an MSD box is NOT for racing only. They have tons of parts for stock to mild performance. YES, an entry level MSD box will certainly help a totally stock motor. Better idle, more complete combustion, etc., the SAME way a Pertronix ignition will. I simply wanted to dispell the statements that ALL MSD products were for "racing only" and alcohol fuel. That concept is just silly.
quote:
Originally posted by Sam: Not everybody has a huge disposable income to lavish on his car...like some people.
Speaking of silly, this comment is downright dumb!
Posts: 189 | Location: NYS | Registered: Nov 13, 2007
Sam, First and foremost, I agree with you! the most economical way to subplant a point system is to use a pertrononix ignition in place of points. As for your inquiry, it is no mystery or secret that a 009 distributor, married with a Bocsh Blue coil is a great set-up for these aircooled engines. As a matter of fact, many of the pro-streets I race against, are running exactly that. I ran a 009 with Blue Coil and a pertronix but went to a compufire electronic module. Ran great. Just so you know, a stock fuel pump also delivers plenty of fuel for a dual carb set-up as well, although I went to a mallory rotary fuel pump with regulator. this was my set-up in a 2110cc(2.1L)stroker. Turning 10.09 at 103mph in an 8th mile.
That said, my 2332cc (2.3L) is a no holds barred build! Money really not an issue (I ship all my parts to work now, as my wife keeps seeing boxes show up and asking "how much was that?". $150.00 is starting to become suspicous to her I should also mention, I am an executive for a public safety company but all my toy $$ comes from my handy man services I provide on_the_side to support my "nasty habit".
The 2332cc is a completely new build. New Case bored and stroked for a 84mm balanced and polished crank with Chevy Journals. new H-Beam 5.5" connecting rods with Chevy Journals, engle FK10 Cam driving a valve train in 044 heads with 44mm intakes, and 37.5 exhaust valves, dual sprung, pushed by Autocraft tapered push rods cut to the proper valve train geometry. The push rods work hard to drive Autocraft 1.5:1 pad rockers. Even on this engine, the 009 would do fine, but why stop there? I am going to the MSD series 5 set-up for obvious reasons. It should also be noted that this required an upgrade to a 75 Amp alternator high output set-up with a surpentine belt system.
I also purchased a new set of Nikasil 94mm pistons and barrels for this monster. Real nice but wicked expensive!
The dual Dellorto 48mm carbs have been re-jetted for this configuration as well. They are mated to new 'big beef' intake manifolds port and polished to the 044 heads. To keep this beast cool, I am running a Mocal external oil cooler with switch fan along with a welded fin housing fan that has been balanced as well. The engine performance is monitored by a full guage set up as well (head temp, oil temp, oil pressure)
Although I would agree with you RE: first thing to swapout is the ignition in a big block, my guess or hypothasis is that the same rules do NOT apply to these horizontally apposed, aircooled 4 cylinder monsters! What I did find in my 2110, when I tack to about 7.5k, the ignition would begin to break down, but my power band in this engine was 5700 to about 7000 rpm so it was rare I would hit this limitation.
btw: I would take Compufire over pertronix any day of the week!
I appreciate your knowledge as well. But on these aircooled engines, I would say the same rules for a big block DO NOT APPLY. I will see if I can post up some photos of my my 67 pro-street when I was running my 2110cc. Lookout old Dominion speedway in May, Roger will be in the house!
Thanks!
in2it
This message has been edited. Last edited by: In2It,
Sammy, I was NOT trying to "flame" you. If I was you'd know it. I am also very curious as to where you think I made a fool of myself. Please show me this specifically, because I have no idea what you are referencing, and now I am curious.
I was simply making a point that your way is not the only way, and that your simplistic view of MSD equipment is very narrow. This is not a push to use MSD either. ANY aftermarket ignition company makes stock replacement parts and systems for older cars. Even Petronics.
YOU sir were the one to start the flame war with your "expert" comments and condescending attitude to any of us that did not completely agree with you. Don't try to turn this around and play the martyr. I was very civil in my posts up until now and plan to be as long as I can.
How about let's talk about the topic at hand and see several views, not just yours. Sound like a good idea?
Sorry if my tenacity bothers you. You'll just have to deal with that.
Posts: 189 | Location: NYS | Registered: Nov 13, 2007
I should also mention, I am an executive for a public safety company but all my toy $$ comes from my handy man services I provide on_the_side to support my "nasty habit". 
