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        posted
        My basement has electric baseboard heating separate from the heat source in the rest of the house.
        I am going to install a programmable thermostat for this heat. Normally, I would turn the power off before doing so. Unfortunately I am not sure which circuit breaker controls it (because they aren't labeled detailed enough) so I would have to turn off all power to the basement....which would mean no lights to work with. Is it safe to change out the thermostat without turning off the power?
         
        Posts: 80 | Registered: Aug 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        No. Baseboard electric is typically 220vac. So the breaker to control it should be a double pole breaker. That alone should help narrow down the choices of possible breakers for the baseboard electric.

        You will also need a line voltage programmable thermostat not a typical thermostat for a gas or oil fired furnace. Heat pumps require their own type of programmable thermostat to handle the emergency heat mode.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: Sparky617,


        General Disclaimer

        Any advice given here is general in nature and is not necessarily valid for your given area. If in doubt check with your local codes enforcement department for what is required when doing electrical, plumbing or structural work on your house. Permits may or may not be required in your area and home owners may not be able to DIY some tasks. I have no way of knowing if you have the skills needed to complete the tasks you are asking about, when in doubt seek professional assistance.

        My advice may be worth exactly what you pay me for it. :-) For the record I did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
         
        Posts: 714 | Location: Cary, NC | Registered: Aug 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        Thanks Sparky!
        I did get a thermostat specifically for electric heating.
        Being that its a double pole breaker certainly narrows it down but there are 6. A/H, Hot water heater, dryer, H/P, Range and there other is not marked. I can assume that it would be the one that isn't marked but how would I know for sure? I guess I could turn them all off.

        P.S. I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night either. LOL
         
        Posts: 80 | Registered: Aug 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of Jaybee
        posted Hide Post
        Easy way is to just turn off all the 220 double breakers. Your lighting is going to be 110 so it will still be working.

        Or, get a voltage 'sniffer' for about $10. Looks like a green pen and can tell you if the power is hot or not to your heat.


        Jaybee
         
        Posts: 10289 | Location: Knoxville, Tennessee | Registered: Sep 27, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of Frodo
        posted Hide Post
        jaybee is correct, and thats a good way to do it
        while your in electrican mode...
        now would be a good time to mark your breakers
        turn off one d-pole breaker, turn on your oven
        if it dont come on...thats it..
        ac unit. same thing..
        water heater..they "grumble" you can hear em work
        just do 1 breaker at a time, 1 fixture at a time..and mark your panel...
        i use a cell phone, and 2 people
        1 at the panel, turning off and on
        the other inside..checking whats on or off

        years ago...25.. my pa inlaw, asked me to replace a 220 plug on a window unit..ok,,,its your house
        kill the breaker...i'll switch it out
        it knocked me for a loop!!! wrong breaker marked
        i shut the whole house off

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: Frodo,


        https://www.youtube.com/*****?v=vn7bkncf1_E
         
        Posts: 3843 | Location: I live in southern mississippi | Registered: Jun 01, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        Hi Frodo,

        All the d-pole breakers are marked except for one.

        Thank you!
         
        Posts: 80 | Registered: Aug 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of CommonwealthSparky
        posted Hide Post
        Perform the task sequence that was outlined by Jaybee & Frodo {a law firm sounding name} and that will get you home.
        Not that this is the best way {my way} to do it but by checking ampere on the breaker{s} will help as well. Push in ovens are 40 amps, dryers are 30 amps, AC 50 or could be higher, depending on the size. Note this is most cases and none of those numbers are chiseled into granite.
        But electric heat could be a 20 or 30 amp breaker, that being dependent on the unit size{s} in that circuit. And the corresponding wiring, of course. Good luck.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: CommonwealthSparky,


        Popeye only reached for the Spinach can as a last resort...
         
        Posts: 1430 | Location: Central Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 02, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of GardenSprite
        posted Hide Post
        Jaybee & Frodo - I like it! It does sound like a law firm!
         
        Posts: 1899 | Registered: Oct 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        I believe all the220 volt cb's are dedicated to each appliance ( 1 for the stove, 1 for the water heater, etc ) so it stands to reason that the unmarked breaker is fir the baseboard heater.
        I would shut off that breaker and open the connection cover on the heater and check , with a vom, for power. If there is no power, you're good to go. If you still have power repeat the procedure with each DP breaker
         
        Posts: 2535 | Location: florida | Registered: Sep 27, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of Jaybee
        posted Hide Post
        quote:
        Originally posted by GardenSprite:
        Jaybee & Frodo - I like it! It does sound like a law firm!


        And I even get to be listed first....I must be the Sr partner.

        Does this mean that I can start billing out 27 hours a day now?


        Jaybee
         
        Posts: 10289 | Location: Knoxville, Tennessee | Registered: Sep 27, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of CommonwealthSparky
        posted Hide Post
        quote:
        Originally posted by nona:
        I believe all the220 volt cb's are dedicated to each appliance ( 1 for the stove, 1 for the water heater, etc ) so it stands to reason that the unmarked breaker is fir the baseboard heater.
        I would shut off that breaker and open the connection cover on the heater and check , with a vom, for power. If there is no power, you're good to go. If you still have power repeat the procedure with each DP breaker

        -----------------------------------------------------
        In most cases this holds true. But electric heat is the exception to the rule. It is allowable to combine more than one unit on a circuit per NEC standards. Just run the numbers and remember to factor in the 80% rule and you are golden. Most units draw about 1 amp per foot in length so running those numbers is quite easy. {High output units excepted in this example}. Just tally those numbers. You are installing a 20 amp 240v breaker and are running 12/2 Romex cable. You can safely and legally install say two 6' units and a 3' unit on that circuit. The total load would add up to 15 amps, slightly below the 16 amps allowed under the 80% rule.
        If you own a home with electric heat you might have noticed this. Say breaker #2/#4 reads master bedroom. That room may have 2 units, 1 under each window in that room. But they would be on one circuit along with maybe a shorter strip in a bathroom as well.
        Now of course this is just an example of a circuit depending on the exact current draw of the units install. But it can be done as Ohm's Law is our friend.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: CommonwealthSparky,


        Popeye only reached for the Spinach can as a last resort...
         
        Posts: 1430 | Location: Central Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 02, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of CommonwealthSparky
        posted Hide Post
        quote:
        Originally posted by Jaybee:
        quote:
        Originally posted by GardenSprite:
        Jaybee & Frodo - I like it! It does sound like a law firm!


        And I even get to be listed first....I must be the Sr partner.

        Does this mean that I can start billing out 27 hours a day now?


        Sounds like those shills on TV that sue everybody over asbestos. Eek
        Billable hours, the bane of the common man everywhere.

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: CommonwealthSparky,


        Popeye only reached for the Spinach can as a last resort...
         
        Posts: 1430 | Location: Central Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 02, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of GardenSprite
        posted Hide Post
        Jaybee, make sure you take on corporate cases because then you can charge more (see below). And remember that you can also charge for time spent thinking about the case/issues.

        CS, the guys who troll for personal injury and products liability cases are pathetic and annoying, especially the 1-800-sue-them type lawyers. But, the big bucks are in corporate and bankruptcy law.

        Consider the Detroit Ch. 9 bankruptcy filing:

        Jones Day is handling the bankruptcy; it normally charges $1,050 for its senior (read "partners") bankruptcy attorneys. That's $1,050 per hour, folks. However, the article states it has agreed to cut its rates by 10%. Isn't that generous?

        Kevyn Orr, the emergency manager, was formerly with Jones Day. Hmmmm...how interesting.

        And Orr was appointed by Gov. Snyder.

        Read this for an interesting tangle of intertwined interests:

        http://www.freep.com/article/2...23/NEWS06/309230120/

        Detroit's been struggling for years and now the Savile Row attired attorneys are here to rescue it. Not.

        Remember this the next time a client nickel and dimes you on your bills.
         
        Posts: 1899 | Registered: Oct 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        I don't know... when I need a lawyer, I always go to Foolum, Billem, and Runn. you KNOW they're honest... Wink


        sig: if this is a new economy, how come they still want my old-fashioned money?
         
        Posts: 5714 | Location: North Burbs, MN | Registered: Mar 14, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of CommonwealthSparky
        posted Hide Post
        quote:
        Originally posted by swschrad:
        I don't know... when I need a lawyer, I always go to Foolum, Billem, and Runn. you KNOW they're honest... Wink



        Or try the Stooges Dewey Fleasem & Howe. Big Grin

        This message has been edited. Last edited by: CommonwealthSparky,


        Popeye only reached for the Spinach can as a last resort...
         
        Posts: 1430 | Location: Central Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 02, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of GardenSprite
        posted Hide Post
        I heard these two firms were merging with Cheatem and Associates, which just bought a private sector ambulance firm.

        Jaybee, be forewarned - you don't want to be a partner at these outfits!
         
        Posts: 1899 | Registered: Oct 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        posted Hide Post
        sharks will never attack a lawyer.

        professional courtesy.


        sig: if this is a new economy, how come they still want my old-fashioned money?
         
        Posts: 5714 | Location: North Burbs, MN | Registered: Mar 14, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
        Picture of CommonwealthSparky
        posted Hide Post
        No but a lawyer would sue a shark if he could figure out how.


        Popeye only reached for the Spinach can as a last resort...
         
        Posts: 1430 | Location: Central Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 02, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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