OK heres my problem I have a 4 wire GFI oulet in my kitchen it has the copper ground wire a red hot wire and two white wire and one of the whites is hot I think ive tried too wire this in in many ways I finally wired it with one the red on the hot side bottom RT and the white on the bottom LT now the hot white I put on the top RT this worked fine until I tried to turn on the light switch in the same box and it blew the GFI now i cant seem to figure how too wire it correctly plz help how do I do this.

First off, with two white wires, one red wire and one ground wire, you do not have standard wiring within the GFCI box so troubleshooting by that description will not work. By rights, you should have a black wire in there somewhere.

Do you have a meter? You really need one to figure this out.

Disconnect everything. Use your meter to determine which wire(s) are hot. If you can find a hot and neutral pair that gives you 115v, then these two go to the 'line' end of the GFCI. Ground to ground. No clue where the extra wire will go

onegoodman -- did the light switch and GFI outlet work properly before you started working on them?

Why did you start working on them?

Is this a new project or house for you?

Like Jaybee indicated, something is weird inside that box. Perhaps someone jumped from the switch to add power to the GFI. Pictures would help, or many more details.

Depending on the age of the electrical, switches and kitchen outlets are not allowed to be on the same circuit. They are suppose to be separate. So to shut off the electrical to the box, you should be shutting off at least two circuit breakers (I once saw a double gang box that took 4 circuit breakers to finally shut if off)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Re-mdlr,

install a gfci breaker in the main box, wires are confusing!

quote:

Originally posted by Dozer54:
install a gfci breaker in the main box, wires are confusing!

While that is a though, most likely the problem will not disappear by doing so. Still have the wiring to tussle with. Plus $45 towards the purchase of a GFCI breaker. And telling someone online to work in a load center while not knowing the abilities of that person. Nothing good coming out of that.
I'm with Jaybee working without a dependable meter is like working blindfolded in the dark.

First, whenever you post, it is wise to use periods between sentences, be clear and concise, and answer questions/post pictures:

1). What caused you to either want or need to do this work?


2). When performing electrical work, it is a great idea to make diagrams/take pictures of everything before you pull them apart.


While a meter is absolutely essential to take out the guess work [pain free], the real question is why are there 4 wires for a 3 wire run? My guess is 4 pair 14ga wire was on sale vs 3 pair 12ga...

Next, at the electrical box, separate all of your terminating wires to where they are not even close to touching either themselves or anything else...label them. Then go to your breaker and turn it on and test each one with your meter [while doing this, make sure no people, kids, dogs/etc are anywhere close]. Now label your wires...

Finally, CAREFULLY examine your service box and determine where each of the wires you just tested are attached [or not]. Ie, black to breaker, white/neutral & grd [bare] to the grounding screws. Also, look at the sheathing where all these wires come out and see if one of the whites is clipped off, or where it is going?

Post back and you will have your answers.

Be careful and if you are unsure of anything, hire a qualified/referred electrician and have them do this for you and explain their work, takes notes...it is easy to forget if you do not perform it often.

Good luck,
tstex

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tstex,

Just thinking out loud, might be one or more of those wires are and have been dead for a while.

two white wires... could be one is feeding neutral downstream, and what's pulled into this box is a 240 volt Edison circuit. the red goes elsewhere, and needs a ground and a neutral to tag along.

if there is drain on another circuit, opening the whites could lead to confusing meter readings. using some carnival sockets (rubber with 6-inch wires out the bottom) fitted with light bulbs in addition to a volt meter is how I'd do this if I was still fumbling around.

you have a "growler" non-contact voltage finder? label everything where it was connected after flipping off the power, put wire nuts on the ends of all the wires, flip power back on, and use the growler on each wire to see what's up. anything that kicks off the light and noisemaker connected to a white or ground wire indicates bad, bad joss.

Like the term carnival sockets, as we call them pigtails, not to be confused with the other pigtail as in a connection capped with a wire nut.
But what is an Edison circuit ? AS I'm curious about that one.

red, white, black, and ground. outlets 1,3,5 use the red wire, common ground, common neutral. outlets 2,4,6 use the black wire, common ground, common neutral. of course, red and black are the adjacent busses of the 240 volt home feedline.

danger, warning, fattening etc... this ONLY works because the phase (current delivery) of the two wires from opposite busses are exact opposites. on your common home breaker panel, the separate breakers would be positioned as if you plugged a 240 volt dual-breaker in... next to each other. since the busses zigzag in the panels, you are supplying +120 on black and -120 volts on red. at no time will the neutral be carrying the total current listed on both breaker's handles. as the current and voltage vary in the total sine wave across both busses as a 240 volt single-phase circuit, the maximum you could draw on the neutral even if you had full load on both 120 volt phases cut from that feed would never be more than one breaker's worth.

there are other names for it. Edison circuit was the one I heard back in the 60s.

if somebody thinks they can use breakers in two odd numbered positions, or two even numbered positions, wrong. homeless wrong. because those will be on the same 120 volt phase, you will carry potentially 2x the rating of the neutral wire, and that will get hot enough to start a fire.

this sort of planning of circuits is why licensed electricians seldom get sued, and folks who don't learn how things work before doing them often end up in deep doo.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: swschrad,

Thanks. I have seen such animals in the wild. But really never was big on a shared neutral, so I did about zero of that type of wiring. And with AFCI specs in place [no shared neutral] I will see less and less. But thanks for "The Theory Room" update as my shop teacher would say. Much appreciated.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: CommonwealthSparky,

they used to be really popular in North Dakota, but IMPHO if you don't label them, homeowners will find a way to short them together and raise havoc. my house here came with four of 'em.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: swschrad,

quote:

Originally posted by swschrad:
they used to be really popular in North Dakota, but IMPHO if you don't label them, homeowners will find a way to short them together and raise havoc. my house here came with four of 'em.

I would certainly think it would cause many a surprise for a homeowner.