I have water coming up 'around' m floor drain in the basement. plumbing works fine. Sump hole is dry. Had a water service line break 3 weeks ago. It was at the shut off 80 ft. from the drain. Any ideas?

Somewhere you have either a broken line that is directing under your slab or you've had enough rain so that the water table is rising. So, the first troubleshooting check is to look back on the weather for the last couple of weeks.

No slab is waterproof, put enough water underneath it and some of it will find it's way through.

Do you think this could be from the break in the service line that was repaired 3 weeks ago? Who knows how long the leak was there before it showed on the surface. Rain is not a factor. The sump hole is dry and it is 20ft. from the drain and goes 40" down from the floor level.

If rain is not a factor (as in, you've had no rain)then your only villain has to be plumbing. The thing is, it's unlikely that three weeks would go by after a leak repair to start leaking into the basement. More likely you still have an active leak going on.

Simple check - take a look at your water meter. Most have a small red dial / triangle / star shaped indicator that spins with even the smallest use of water. With everything off in the house, check to see if this is spinning. That means that there is still a leak in the system somewhere. If the meter is not spinning, the you are back to natural ground water as the source.

Meter is not moving. If the line is broken befor the meter it wouldn't be moving. The water does not appear to be under pressure, the sump hole is still dry and we have had no rain.
???

How close are you to your neighbors?
A friend was sure he had a leak in either the sprinkler system or somewhere under the house or sump pump that was seeping into his basement.
Turned out, after several thousands of dollars spent on repairing and replacing suspect lines...turned out to be his neighbor's inground pool was leaking. A neighbor's sprinkler system leak could also affect your home if close enough. Just something else to consider?

the active movement of water underground is a barstool to pinpoint without tracer dyes and test holes and such.

to me, the big gotcha for the security of your home is that you have a dry sump. there is something wrong there to start with, the pump should be running all the time if there is a leak underway. that should be the tip-off, not water coming up around the floor drain. that will need fixing, too.

and so... it's smelling to me like maybe just maybe, it's time to start breaking up some slab. my suspect is that there are other leaks in your waterline from meter to shutoff valve. I'd do a little probing with a snake in the floor drain to determine which direction the line runs, and chalk it on the floor. chalk the water line direction to the meter. someplace between the two, get a carbide bit and drill a hole to start through the slab.

if there is pressure behind that water, it's going to bubble up the hole. that means a real good chance you need to replace the water line, and the plumber should look at the drain line while it's excavated. half the cost of doing both is cutting the trench and filling it back up, so why do that twice?

if you're really energetic and a go-getter, you could then drill anothr hole closer to the shutoff valve (but not too close, please, don't drill into the line!) and see if the bubbling is higher. now you're closer to the culprit if that's the case. if it slows and stops if the city shutoff is closed, bingo, get three estimates and move any plantings you don't want wrecked, because there's going to be a backhoe and plumbers in your future.

if there's no pressure, the leak is further away. your city water utility might be interested in this, because there could be a break in the city lines. whatever stressed your connection could have hosed up the city's tap or the main line, too. it could undercut the roadway and cause a collapse.

if you have plumbing under the slab... geez, pal, I'm sorry to say this, but it could be anything anywhere. what I personally would do is cut some holes and replumb all the pressure service stuff in the house overhead, and abandon the under-slab stuff.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: swschrad,

I have determined that it is indeed the water line. I had the utility man turn off my water this morning at 9:45. The water went away, and it stayed dry utill 3:30 this pm. I then drained the bath tub that I had filled this am and watched the the drain while the tub drained. No water came up. Conclsion: not a sewer problem.
I then had the water turned on. With in 20 min. the water started rising around the drain again. Conclusion: water line leak.
Do you guys think this was a valid test ? and am I drawing the right conclusions?

quote:

Originally posted by Ecurb:
I have determined that it is indeed the water line. Conclsion: not a sewer problem.

Do you guys think this was a valid test ? and am I drawing the right conclusions?

That's about as conclusive as you can get. The only thing wrong with the logic is that a couple of replies above you stated that the meter is not moving. My vote here would be that you read the meter incorrectly and did not see the small wheel indicating the leak.

So you are right! It's a supply side water leak.

That's the good news.

The bad news: The leak can be very difficult to find and expensive & messy to fix. Somewhere within or underneath your basement slab is a broken pipe. Finding the exact location will be difficult. Once located, the only access is through the concrete slab. At this point, your best course of action will be to call in a plumber experienced with these sort of problems.

And the really bad news: This is going to be expensive.

Would the meter move if the leak is befor the meter? The meter is in my basement.
The guy who fixed the 'street' leak, said that he has had good luck with pulling the old line out while pulling a new line in. Do you think this is possible? I am sure it will require digging, but may eliminate a major hole in my basement floor.

on the contrary, replacing the bad line or lines will necessitate making a big hole in your basement floor.

where I'd go next is shut off the water on the "house" side of the meter and see if the leak goes away. that would be most unpleasant, as it means you have pressure lines that run under the slab. as I indicated above, in that case I'd abandon them and rerun all the pressure stuff in the rafters and walls. the only good news is that with PEX pipe and fastening systems, you don't have to put soldered joints everywhere there is the slightest turn, and it cuts down a great deal on the access holes you have to punch in the wall and repair afterwards.

if the water does not stop, with the house side turned off at the meter, it's the supply line. dig outside, break floor inside, to replace that. when mom had to have her line replaced a few years ago, the copper had a green coating as it went through the concrete... probably a plastic overcoat. this is a brilliant idea you need to look for, because it will prevent abrasion and corrosion in that concrete area.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: swschrad,

quote:

Originally posted by Ecurb:
Would the meter move if the leak is befor the meter? The meter is in my basement.
The guy who fixed the 'street' leak, said that he has had good luck with pulling the old line out while pulling a new line in. Do you think this is possible? I am sure it will require digging, but may eliminate a major hole in my basement floor.

Just wondering about this, since it's unusual in my experience. You are saying the the actual water meter is inside your basement? Meaning that each month the meter reader has to come inside your house to read the meter? (unless the whole set-up is new and has a remote read meter).

If that is the case, then any water on the 'street' side of the meter could leak without spinning the meter.

Next question: You said above that the utility guy turned off your water. Where did he shut it off at? Obviously, the leak is on the down-hill side of the cut-off. So if he turned off the meter then you do have a supply side leak somewhere in your plumbing under the slab.

up here in freeze-yer-donkey-off territory, the water meters have to be inside. almost no city uses inside readers any more like they did in my youth... they either use older dial-me meter controllers where you provide a phone line... or the newer near-field RF boxes hooked to the meter. now reading your water use is a drive-by in a city car with a laptop.

this means there is a shutoff valve below the frost line, with a long casing and a control link, to a "WATER" bezel at ground level. the 5-sided tap wrench goes into that to shut off your water.

that's how it works around Frostbite Falls.

Same location for the meters here, in the basement. Both in NE and CO.
Remote sensor readers both places. Probably because of the COLD winter temps, as mentioned.

Well, I guess Y'all can tell I'm from the South. Our freeze line around here is an official 8"

in a TV station building about 35 years ago, we had a big ol' air duct to the outside for the two gas furnaces. gets down to 40 below up in Devils Lake, ND, and not for two hours.

came in one Saturday to get the cameras and do a story, and everything was wet... bottom froze out of the meter. had to rig some carpet scraps around the bottom of the duct so very minimal air came into the furnace/photolab room until a furnace kicked on.

just putting a meter inside is not enough. it has to stay above freezing, too. the bottoms are supposed to freeze out so the meter is not ruined where it costs big money. but with the meter case open and exposed to the city main, you can get lots of water inside, fast.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: swschrad,

Update: The leak was confirmed to be under my basement floor on the supply side and before the meter. The meter is in my heated basement and does not freeze. The meter has an electronic device that allowes the meter reader to read it from outside. The only water pipes that are under the slab is the service line that comes from the main that is on the curb. That is where the leak was 3 weeks ago. That is where the 'shut off' is. I also shut the water off, from the main, in the basement. The leak continued.
We are having a new line put in on Wed. It will come across the front of my yard, avoiding my cement drive way, and into my basement wall, 46" below the ground surface. It will come into my heated basement area and go straight up to the area above the suspended ceiling. From there it is a 15' straight shot to the utility room and then hooked up to the meter. This eliminates any cement work on the basement floor. I will put a cabinate over the exposed pipe, and all should be well. I hope

Thanks for the update - always nice to find out what happened. Hopefully this repair will be at the cost of the water utility.

The expense is mine as it is a service line from the main to my house. If it weren't for the water coming in my basement I could let it water my yard for free. I wonder how long the water dept. wouldgo before fixing it themselves. Estimate is $2100-$2500. Our solution is $1200 less than 'pulling' the line. What I learned about 'pulling' a line is interesting. What they do is put a cable in the water line and push it about about 80 ft. then dig a hole after tracing the line . They attach a cutting wedge to the cable and the new water line behind the wedge and pull it back. The idea is the wedge splits the old line and pulls the new one through the old line. If the line is longer than 80',mine was 150', they would pull from both ways, house to hole and street shut off to hole, and connect the two in the middle hole. I hope I explained it ok. Some excavators won't do the pulling thing as there may be sewer lines or something else in the ground.
I too am from the North, I went to high school in Cavalier,ND, but am now in Western SD, so I am familiar with cold temps.

Ecurb... A call to miss utilities would solve the fear factor of hitting something else in the ground, and it's free...