I purchased a home in Sept 12 and the water meter shows that water is being used when it is not. No signs of leaks in or around the house and I have dropped over $1000 in repairs and plumber costs and still can't find the leak. City says the meter is fine. This is about to drive me nuts. Please give advice and expectations of plumber duties. I pay them by the hour even when they don't find the leak.

So when you shut off the water at the meter, then the water usage stops, or should. Do you have a water shutoff just before it enters the house -- what happens when you shut it off there but the meter is on?? Are lawn sprinklers tied in to the water system?? It shouldn't be difficult to isolate the area to concentrate on, then it would probably be a matter of digging up the ground.

Also, what approx area are you from? Building methods differ from area to area.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Re-mdlr,

Shut off the water at the main inside the house, is the meter still showing water use? If so, you have a leak between the meter and the house. If not, you have a leak in the house. If there isn't any water damage showing the most likely place is a leaking toilet. Put some dye in the toilet tank, if the water in the bowl changes color without flushing you have a leaky flap valve.

I'd be surprised that a good plumber didn't find it. You're a first time poster, so I am suspect that you're one of our new spamming members.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rog B:
I am not a spammer. Just a very frustrated homeowner. To try and summarize what I know so far: with all valves open in and out of the house, about 2 gallons are used according to the meter in 2 1/2 hours. When I shutoff the valve above the hot water heater only, no water is used according to the meter. Seemed to be a leak on the hot water side in slab but wait for this. If I open all valves, including hot water heater line, and use no faucets for 6-8 hours (overnight), the cold water line to the hot water heater is hotter than the hot water line coming out of the heater. I opened up the wall to expose the manifold behind the hot water heater and none of the lines from the manifold are warm, just the cold water line to the heater is hot. I am not a plumber but assume that one of the cold lines is leaking and the increased pressure from the heater is pushing the hot water back through the cold line. I have rebuilt both toilets and done the food color test. No food color in toilet after sitting overnight with blue water in tank. I am in Kyle Tx, south of Austin.

Rog,
Sorry for assuming you're a spammer, look over the boards and you'll see a lot of new posters asking dumb questions and then post unsolicited advice posts that are just a way to post a link to a suspect website. I'm not saying your question is stupid by the way.

When a water heater heats the water it expands and either pushes water back towards the water meter or if you're equipped with an expansion tank into the expansion tank. http://www.lowes.com/pd_160680...on%2Btank&facetInfo=

That could be the cause of your cold water inlet pipe being hot on your water heater. Link shows an expansion tank at Lowes. I don't know if this would register as 2.5 gallons over night. One test might be to turn the water heater off and let it cool down to see if the water meter still shows usage with nothing running in the house. If that's the case, installing an expansion tank would stop you from having to pay for the water twice. Though it may take a check valve to stop it. Without an expansion tank you don't want a check valve on your main. Our town was installing new meters with check valves on them to keep water from being sucked back into the system from a house, when the do that we needed to have an expansion tank to keep the house plumbing from becoming over pressurized.

Under slab leaks can always be a challenge to find. I'm not a plumber, don't play one on TV so I'm not sure how to help you there. Leaks in the yard are usually easy to find as you'll have a patch of green grass over a soupy mess depending on your soil type.

quote:

Originally posted by Sparky617:

Under slab leaks can always be a challenge to find. I'm not a plumber, don't play one on TV so I'm not sure how to help you there. Leaks in the yard are usually easy to find as you'll have a patch of green grass over a soupy mess depending on your soil type.

Well, I do an awful lot of plumbing and have played a plumber on TV numerous times so here's my two cents worth:

You've got one of the more difficult issues - a very slow leak and a slab house. The trick is to isolate and eliminate as many potential trouble areas as possible. One thing to help you trouble-shoot is to be aware that most meters have a low-flow indicator. This is a small star-shaped or triangular wheel that will spin with even a tiny amount of water flow. Watch this part of your water meter as you check different areas of the plumbing system.

From what you have said so far it does seem that you have a leak in the hot water line somewhere. Not be be redundant, but double check everything. Turn off the valve at the water heater - this should be a cold water line that supplies water to the tank. Check the spin rate of the low-flow meter before and after closing this valve. IF closing this valve does stop the low flow from turning, then your cold water side is fine and the problem has to be either in the hot water lines or the water heater itself. This would eliminate the toilets as the possible cause.

Tracking things down beyond this point may not be possible. You can check any hot water device that is accessible but there is a good chance that all you can do is to eliminate them as the problem. A copper line (or any material for that matter) that is encased in concrete can develop a leak - either as the result of a slab movement or from a failed connection. The bad news is that they can be almost impossible to find and if you can locate the leak, the fix can be expensive. You can look for any damp areas if you have carpet or squishy areas if you have floating floors or vinyl. Hardwood may show some expansion or finish damage due to moisture. Tile will probably not give you any clue at all. To help in your search, the plumbing will follow the shortest path from the water heater to the nearest bath or kitchen and then on to the next - usually in a straight line between plumbing areas.

Just the facts:

1. Any plumber should be able to take you to at least where I have stated above. Even the best plumber may not be able to find an in-slab leak, but they should be able to eliminate everything else.

2. The better plumbers have sound equipment and/or thermal imaging gear that can probably find the leak if encased in a slab. If you are searching for another plumber, tell them that you suspect that you have an in-slab leak and confirm that they have the ability to find it.

3. Be prepared so spend a lot of money. You are looking at the possibility of replacing a finished floor, cutting and repouring a part of your slab in addition to making the plumbing repairs. It's also possible that once the source of the leak is found that the problem could be age and corrosion - meaning that there will be other leaks in other places eventually.

4. The only good news that I can give you is that you have only been in the house for 6 months. Look into if you home came with any warranties. It also may be possible to determine if the leak was present during the tenure of the former owner by checking older water records. This would especially be true if the house was vacant for a while or if the former owners had any period of time where they were not in the house. A phone call you your real estate agent would be the best place to start here.

Good luck.

Exactly how does the water provider "know" it is not the meter ? Our local water provider will not swap out a meter until you mention you are planning to place a call to the commonwealth PUC. Then they are knocking at your door before nightfall. {With replacement meter in hand}.
I too suspect a copper problem in the slab, but you never know. Trouble shooting can be a real nightmare.